Why does everybody hate minivans

"tsar" (tsar) 11/21/2014 at 03:24 • Filed to: None

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I feel like I should rant and say something because I love them and everyone ends up talking about wagons.

promoted by the color red > tsar 11/21/2014 at 03:26

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Because not everybody had the means to express suburban teenage angst like the people in the 1979 music video.

tsar > promoted by the color red 11/21/2014 at 03:32

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haha, not that I have anything against wagons but minivans are pretty damn good at what they're supposed to do even if they don't appeal to enthusiasts

promoted by the color red > tsar 11/21/2014 at 03:36

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Agreed. Enthusiasts sometimes are the worst.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > tsar 11/21/2014 at 03:48

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Especially if it's JDM like Nissan Elgrand and Toyota Alphard. They are awesome.

Svend > tsar 11/21/2014 at 03:50

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Nothing wrong with minivans really. The U.S. minivans are larger and maybe more practical because of this but in Britain and Europe the minivans or rather MPVs are more suited to our needs and dare I say look less beige.

Ford Galaxy and S-Max, Vauxhall Zafira, Zafira Tourer and Meriva, Mercedes Vito and Viano, VW Sharan and Touran, etc...

tsar > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 11/21/2014 at 03:50

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where I live gets those through parallel importers! My dad almost purchased a Toyota Estima (like an Alphard but less boxy) but it's impractical to own those in Singapore because they're too tall for some carparks

ps: Estima=Previa

tsar > Svend 11/21/2014 at 03:53

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in Singapore we get a healthy mix of both types and they sell well. Staying here in US for 6 days and I realise why the ginormous minivans have caught on here; with the distances people travel they're basically living in their vehicles

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > tsar 11/21/2014 at 03:57

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I know, we got those estima thing too in Indonesia

And similarly we got those car from imports too!

*But i think Alphard is much better than the Estima. Although if i were in the market of minivan i'll get the Nissan Elgrand. Because RWD.

Svend > tsar 11/21/2014 at 03:59

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I think at some point they stop being a minivan and simply become a van with seats and windows ergo a minibus.

tsar > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 11/21/2014 at 04:04

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oh haha nice to see some neighbors around here. I'm not too fond of the Elgrand's looks but I dig the Vellfire in black. RWD doesn't matter much when they're so slow anyway hahaha

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > tsar 11/21/2014 at 04:11

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But wait until you see my other plan ;)

Well, i've been driving the Vellfire couple of times, and they're pretty good. It's not that slow since the top of the line Vellfire G's have 276hp and AWD.

For the looks, i always love the looks of the Oddysey. Now that's pretty.

tsar > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 11/21/2014 at 04:26

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I think the new one is quite an abomination to be honest. My favorite would probably be two generations ago with the triangular taillights

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > tsar 11/21/2014 at 04:28

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New one is ugly behemoth. Simply because Honda wants to replace the Elysion and Oddysey with one car.

God i miss the elysion.

tsar > Svend 11/21/2014 at 04:28

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in terms of full-size vans I have to say the American ones (Econonline etc.) are far more appealing on the merit of their sheer badassery

tsar > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 11/21/2014 at 04:32

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Elysion was never officially sold here but one of my Indonesian friends used to be chauffeur driven in one. Wonderful looking van; definitely better than the Elgrand of that vintage. The older Alphard looks better too, before it got all swoopy

SlickMcRick > tsar 11/21/2014 at 04:57

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Wait you actually like our old full-size vans? Come on over and take cargo ship full with you. We have more than enough to share.

tsar > SlickMcRick 11/21/2014 at 04:59

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coming from an Asian perspective: they're big, boxy, imposing looking and have V8s. Travelled in one across Texas and the southwest and I have to say they're pretty comfortable to boot

SlickMcRick > tsar 11/21/2014 at 05:10

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Well they're starting to die out for Euro style vans. I'll say this about our vans. They are fun in the rain and you can do burnouts whenever you feel like it in them. Again be my guest and load up on as many as you'd like.

TheOnelectronic > tsar 11/21/2014 at 06:11

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Because before the age of the crossover, Minivans were the icon of "I just need to get my darling child and three further accidents across town in the mornings" appliance automotiva.

Kailand09 > tsar 11/21/2014 at 06:15

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To me, it's basically like the ultimate boring car.

It is a WONDERFUL utility vehicle, but as such lacks in most other areas an enthusiast is going to look for. Generally not all too powerful, obviously won't turn for shit, etc etc.

There's nothing wrong with them really, but I wouldn't ever buy one solely because it gives up everything interesting with cars to be as useful for families as possible.

The man in the iron mask > tsar 11/21/2014 at 06:45

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Aerostar is the only true minivan. RWD manuel. DAMN

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > tsar 11/21/2014 at 07:04

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We hate not the minivans, but the people who drive them, and the unfortunate reputation that surrounds them...

^ I secretly love the the 2014 Town and Country...

Leon711 > Svend 11/21/2014 at 07:26

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Meriva has suicide doors.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > tsar 11/21/2014 at 07:31

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I regularly drive these, Toyota Siennas, and Grand Caravans for work. The Ody is the best of the three. Honda engineers seem to have said, "we know you need a minivan so we are going to make sure it's not an unpleasant experience."

luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! > tsar 11/21/2014 at 07:34

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At first it was wagons that were hated. Those were the family car of choice for a time, and many of those who grew up with one swore they'd never drive one when they started their own families. Now is the age of mini-van hate. Next will come the age of SUV hate.

Svend > Leon711 11/21/2014 at 07:38

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Which is nice but I like the look of the Vauxhall Zafira Tourer above.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > tsar 11/21/2014 at 08:33

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Well, my mom's friends had one of those, and it's quite amazing since it has some features that you got in W221 S-Class like radar-guided cruise control and satnav (which is broken, can only be used in Japan)

It's kinda awesome.

pip bip - choose Corrour > tsar 11/21/2014 at 09:07

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if minivans are so good , where is the performance variants?

Aaron M - MasoFiST > tsar 11/21/2014 at 09:13

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The car I first learned to drive on was a 1996 Mercury Villager with the Nissan VG30E. 150hp, 180 ft-lbs...that doesn't sound like much but damn was that car fun with so much low-end torque. We ended up getting rid of it in 2005 after my Mom wrapped it around a telephone pole with the help of some black ice...it had around 190,000 miles on it. The "replacement" was a Plymouth Voyager we got from my grandparents...that was a hateful vehicle, not as well put together, not as fast, and not as smooth as the Villager.

Even just remembering this makes me want to get an old VG30 Maxima...same cherry powerplant in a lighter car.

twochevrons > tsar 11/21/2014 at 09:16

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I don't quite understand the hate, either – sure, they're not 'enthusiast' cars, but, with a few exceptions for particularly terrible ones, they're good at what they do, and provide good value.

My parents are staunch station wagon and hatchback devotees – I grew up riding around in the third row of an Audi 100 Avant, and now they own a gorgeous Alfa 156 wagon. But for a while there, us three kids were too big for long trips to be comfortable in the Audi, but too young to drive ourselves, so they sold the Audi and bought a Renault Espace.

From an enthusiast's perspective, the Espace was pretty awful – its road manners managed to be both dull and comically bad, acceleration was glacial, and with a tiny bonnet opening, maintenance was a pain. Dad hated it. But, on the other hand, it was undeniably good at what it was designed for – as a comfortable, civilised and flexible way of transporting a family. Driver enjoyment was wholly secondary to that goal, but I honestly think that if they had made it more of a driver's car, much of the practicality would have to be sacrificed.

I rode in a recent Chrysler Voyager a while back, and felt the same way – sure, it's not going to be fun to drive by any stretch of the imagination, but it was remarkably comfortable, and unbeatably practical. Like my parents, I'm a wagon and hatch devotee, and I don't see myself ever owning a minivan, but if the need arose, I'd have no shame in buying one. Minivans are honest, practical vehicles: they're not pretending to be exciting, don't claim any kind of offroad prowess, and are not particularly stylish (although I've always liked the look of the Espace). However, what they do claim to do – provide practical transport for a family and/or a bunch of stuff – they excel at, and you can't begrudge them that.

tsar > Leon711 11/21/2014 at 15:27

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the meriva only seats 5 though

tsar > Kailand09 11/21/2014 at 15:32

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Haha, that's exactly what it is and it hardly pretends otherwise. I find the American vans are faster than they have a right to be- the 08 odyssey we have goes to 60 in just above 7 seconds which is quite fast for what is effectively a house on wheels

tsar > luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! 11/21/2014 at 15:34

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just a phase, then. Coming from a place where everything is smaller in general, being in the US for a few days the amount of space and utility those things have is amazing

tsar > TheOnelectronic 11/21/2014 at 15:34

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OTOH minivans hardly pretend to be otherwise

tsar > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 11/21/2014 at 15:35

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damn that's a good looking van haha

tsar > pip bip - choose Corrour 11/21/2014 at 15:36

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I'd say the current crop of minivans are pretty quick for their size and weight

tsar > Aaron M - MasoFiST 11/21/2014 at 15:37

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uncle owned a maxima! 96 in black, don't remember what the transmission was. Sold it in 2010 with 400k. Body was rusting out but engine was great as ever

tsar > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 11/21/2014 at 15:39

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I guess in an increasingly competitive market with crossovers and SUVs that target families minivans will eventually get more exciting. Looking at the sienna/odyssey they're both quite pleasing to look at and extremely comfortable.

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > tsar 11/21/2014 at 15:40

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IKR! Today's T&C is what the conversion van used to be... But it still needs better wheels, IMHO.

tsar > twochevrons 11/21/2014 at 15:40

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I've always had a soft spot for the Espace, especially because of its glass roof and stuff. Ended up being too tall for Singapore roads though; and too expensive for what it was.

tsar > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 11/21/2014 at 15:41

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to my understanding they're actually used as VIP transport in the eastern countries which would probably explain that haha

tsar > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 11/21/2014 at 15:46

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conversion vans had the V8s though. Wheels are the easiest part of the thing to change haha. It also amazes me coming from supposedly the most expensive city in the world that here in the states you can purchase a minivan for <$20k

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > tsar 11/21/2014 at 15:50

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A new one? Which one are you seeing for less than $20K??

tsar > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 11/21/2014 at 16:10

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the Grand Caravan AVP

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > tsar 11/21/2014 at 16:21

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Ah! I'd honestly never even heard of that trim level before...

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > tsar 11/21/2014 at 17:15

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Well, i just do some quickride on that elysion, just check for it in my kinja

Kailand09 > tsar 11/21/2014 at 18:41

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this is true, and the only thing i can give them. straight line, they are better than you'd think

tsar > Kailand09 11/21/2014 at 18:51

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utility is pretty sexy in its own way

Kailand09 > tsar 11/21/2014 at 19:03

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ehhh that's why im lookimg at hot hatches

TheOnelectronic > tsar 11/21/2014 at 20:53

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There was that Toyota "Swagger Wagon" commercial a while back.

*shudder*

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > tsar 11/21/2014 at 22:54

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The Honda is especially nice to drive. The Toyota tends to feel heavier - more truck like — while the Honda feels like an Accord, in van form. And as far as a boring family sedan goes, I like the accord.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 11/21/2014 at 23:03

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basest of the base. Below the SE. Some dealers keep them on the lots just so they can advertise BRAND NEW MINIVAN FOR UNDER $20,000!!!! OWN IT FOR $279 A MONTH !!!

tsar > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 11/22/2014 at 02:36

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nice analogy haha we've got a 2014 Accord V6 too so there's that

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection 11/22/2014 at 08:03

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Problem is, I can think of a couple dozen used cars I'd rather spend 20K on... haha

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge 11/22/2014 at 09:07

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Here are 12. Keeping it limited to those practical enough to use as a DD, (enough trunk space for a week's worth of groceries for two people) new enough to get an auto loan and seen on Autotrader recently:

'11 Mustang GT

'10-11 Camaro SS

'13-14 Civic Si

'04-07 WRX STi

'05-06 GTO

'09 370Z

'08-13 Mazdaspeed 3

'10-13 GTI

'07-14 Miata

'07 300 SRT-8

'07-08 S2000

'07 CTS-V